“I was relieved. But also lonely” (nd-aktuell.de)

In your high-profile speech at the Fifa World Football Association Congress, you spoke of your footballing dreams as a 13-year-old. What would the teenage Lise say about the state of world soccer today?

When I was 13, the only thing that interested me in soccer was the ball. But I also wanted to understand the world outside of soccer, was afraid of wars, concerned myself with equality or children’s rights. As an adult, I understood more and more the power of soccer as a movement. For example, setting rules that apply worldwide, that’s fascinating. It is therefore all the more important that such a movement is led by forces that act in a balanced and ethical manner and have a healthy understanding of power.

Is that what you wanted to express with your speech?

Yes. It is extremely important that the soccer field be open to all: conservatives and leftists, communists and capitalists. On the pitch, only the game should count. At the same time, you can’t just say soccer and politics aren’t related – everything is politics. And because so much money is involved, soccer even becomes high politics. This demands that we all work for democracy in sport if soccer is to survive.

What specifically are you calling for?

We need a democratic debate about what we want and what we don’t want. We see this in ideas like the Super League, this hypercapitalism of recent years, but this is not about assigning blame. In addition, we see that Vladimir Putin is using soccer. Many state leaders do that, but he does it more than others. There is a lot at stake, and it is urgent! The countries that agree with us must stand together, act and fight for the values that should govern soccer.

Before your speech, you were advised to keep a low profile. Why did you speak anyway?

I was active in soccer all my adult life: as a player, commentator, association director. It remained my hobby even when I was a lawyer and a judge. In that time I experienced many changes, also for the better. But the big picture – the Super League, the match calendar, the power struggle between the federations or within Fifa, political influence, sportswashing: all this tells me that there is no more time to lose. Our fans and members are calling ever louder and more organized for change, and we must listen. Especially in the year of a World Cup that must not cast even more dark shadows on soccer. We must do everything we can to ensure that we don’t get back into the kind of situation we’re in now.

You also called for deeper changes in the speech. What were the reactions when you left the stage?

I myself was relieved, but also a bit lonely. Those sitting around me seemed uninterested and looked away. Nothing came at all. I was prepared for this, but I had never experienced anything like this before. Later, I also received beautiful feedback, from many other countries and at my home. Then the loneliness disappeared again, which encouraged me to act now, because that is the most important thing.

What was the feedback from Germany and from the new DFB President Bernd Neuendorf?

I met Bernd and Heike Ullrich (DFB General Secretary, editor’s note) in Doha, they expressed their support and warmth. When I came back to Norway, the German Football Association was the first association to call me and ask for a detailed discussion. I am very grateful for that. Germany is a great soccer nation that we look up to and that is participating in the World Cup. It is very important that we support those teams that are going to the World Cup with our initiative. Also so that the players can concentrate on their games. They should be free. It is all the more important that we as association leaders live up to our responsibility and lead politically.

How do you intend to improve the situation in Qatar together?

We need to be concrete quickly, because there is little time left before the World Cup. We must follow the advice of independent organizations, not slavishly and uncritically, of course, but knowledgeably. A focal point for migrant workers would be important. Symbolically, but also because the rules are hollow if you do not introduce control mechanisms for them. Workers need to feel that they can exercise their rights. They need a safe haven with legal help.

You also talked about minority rights.

This is incredibly important. When you give a World Cup to countries where there are bans against LGBTQ+ lifestyles, soccer has to make sure that all fans and players have access to the tournament. That’s not how it is at the moment. Tickets are already being sold, but the bans are still there. We need to make sure that these prohibition laws are suspended during the World Cup and that this is communicated. All people need to be able to go there knowing that they won’t be arrested for something that is their right.

What about the construction workers?

We need to investigate the death toll. That of 6500 dead workers circulating according to the Guardian report is misleading, because it is the total number of all dead foreign workers in Qatar over ten years. However, they died only partially during the construction of the stadium. Nevertheless, the number is circulating because we don’t have any reasonable research on which one applies to the World Cup. We need them, also in order to compensate the survivors for what happened under the responsibility of soccer.

Are you also critical of the planned re-election of Fifa President Gianni Infantino next year?

My speech was not directed against Infantino or against World Cup organizing chief Hassan Al-Thawadi; it was independent of individuals. I was concerned with a call to action. To Fifa, but also to Uefa here in Europe, to Norway, Germany and other federations. It is important that this debate continues openly and that Infantino takes part in it. I was allowed to speak at the congress, I respect Fifa for that, because they knew I would be critical.

Wouldn’t it finally be time for a female Fifa president?

I think it’s very important to get women into leadership positions, everywhere in international sports. That gives young girls role models. But my speech had nothing to do with the presidential election at all, I didn’t think about that for a second.

What do you think of the new awarding process for world championships?

It’s good that we no longer have a closed circle of 22 people with no transparency deciding on World Cup hosts as was the case with Russia and Qatar. Now it is a fully democratic process. But it is problematic that Fifa’s human rights advisory body has been dissolved. It was supposed to become a subcommittee, which never happened. It would be important, especially now before the World Cup in Qatar, to have an independent human rights committee that could give feedback to Fifa. The fact that this does not exist is problematic and difficult to understand.

What does this mean for the future?

For the democratic process to really work at Fifa congresses, professional oversight structures would be needed. It’s incredibly important to make sure that the decisions are in line with ethical standards and that the host nations meet the requirements in terms of human rights. I think it’s good that we don’t only play in Western countries. But if we give tournaments to countries that have big problems with corruption or equality and don’t have the necessary infrastructure, then we need more time and real standards that we have to agree on beforehand. SID/nd

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